I'm glad you decided to take this angle. There are many more weird details to this story, such as the recently uncovered history of Durov’s frequent and secret trips to Russia (where he was presumably persona non grata), rumors about his attempt to meet Putin in Azerbaijan (denied by the Kremlin, which only fueled the speculations), Telegrams financial ties to Moscow through Russian banks VTB and Alfa, etc. I don't want to draw any conclusions, but it seems obvious that there is so much more to this story than “free speech crackdown/big tech regulation”
I think you're right. Authorities would have a tremendous amount of strategic and highly sensitive information if they could gain access to platform data.
Interesting angle and some food for thought. I do think you shouldn't be as dismissive of critiques of Signal though. It's pretty well established (see Yasha Levine's work Surveillance Valley, as well as pieces in mainstream publications like Slate) that it had major CIA funding and that they have a backdoor on it. Makes your angle actually more compelling i.e. Telegram needed to be brought under US State control.
This is funny: "Provided you don’t count the multiple crypto-scam groups to which I am unwillingly added every month". Actually, you just change your privacy preferences on who can add you to groups, and it will never happen again.
More generally, it is notable that a lot of negative commentary on this product is from people who don't use it much and don't know its features and the critical role it plays for people in many countries. It may not be popular in Western Europe and the US, but it is just a - deservedly - preferred means of communication in the former USSR countries, including Ukraine and Russia. In terms of features, pace of development and user experience, other products (like Signal, WhatsApp) just do not go anywhere near and look amateurish in comparison. With a critical caveat, of course, that E2E encryption is opt-in on Telegram.
I appreciate that you classify Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Google as independent intelligence agencies too. Feel like we need a refresher on this still-true fact sometimes. “The Age of Surveillance Capitalism” can out 6 years ago but not much has changed yeah?
Though on the flip side, I’m curious avoid the capitalism angle of Telegram. Has anyone followed the money?
I guess it depends on the context of when you started using it. In my case, I think crypto is dumb, and in fact didn't know it was associated with that. Sure, I do get the random spam groups about crypto schemes, but that was *after* I signed up on Telegram, and not a primary feature that drew me to the platform as you suggest.
Honestly, I just didn't like that Facebook bought WhatsApp and back in the day (10-ish years ago) I was trying hard to get away from the FB and Google tentacles as much as possible. Fast forward to now, where I don't really care / defeated about losing the privacy war lol
Just came here to say that Telegram is just where I have my various family group texts and some friend groups, even a group chat that is exclusively for posting cute photos of your pets.
I'm sure it's a cesspool, won't debate that notion. However in my limited experience with WhatsApp, it is also full of scammers and I'm pretty sure I've seen a giant crypto group or two. Perhaps they get squashed faster than they do on Telegram though, and that's probably the big point here.
Content moderation is not a purity test, but a half-life measurement: when (not if) something bad lands on a platform, what is its average half-life on that platform?
I'm glad you decided to take this angle. There are many more weird details to this story, such as the recently uncovered history of Durov’s frequent and secret trips to Russia (where he was presumably persona non grata), rumors about his attempt to meet Putin in Azerbaijan (denied by the Kremlin, which only fueled the speculations), Telegrams financial ties to Moscow through Russian banks VTB and Alfa, etc. I don't want to draw any conclusions, but it seems obvious that there is so much more to this story than “free speech crackdown/big tech regulation”
Not a take I have seen--I appreciate the alternative viewpoint on this.
I think you're right. Authorities would have a tremendous amount of strategic and highly sensitive information if they could gain access to platform data.
you're a full on cia stooge huh
why do you say that?
Interesting angle and some food for thought. I do think you shouldn't be as dismissive of critiques of Signal though. It's pretty well established (see Yasha Levine's work Surveillance Valley, as well as pieces in mainstream publications like Slate) that it had major CIA funding and that they have a backdoor on it. Makes your angle actually more compelling i.e. Telegram needed to be brought under US State control.
This is funny: "Provided you don’t count the multiple crypto-scam groups to which I am unwillingly added every month". Actually, you just change your privacy preferences on who can add you to groups, and it will never happen again.
More generally, it is notable that a lot of negative commentary on this product is from people who don't use it much and don't know its features and the critical role it plays for people in many countries. It may not be popular in Western Europe and the US, but it is just a - deservedly - preferred means of communication in the former USSR countries, including Ukraine and Russia. In terms of features, pace of development and user experience, other products (like Signal, WhatsApp) just do not go anywhere near and look amateurish in comparison. With a critical caveat, of course, that E2E encryption is opt-in on Telegram.
this is a refreshing pov.
I appreciate that you classify Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Google as independent intelligence agencies too. Feel like we need a refresher on this still-true fact sometimes. “The Age of Surveillance Capitalism” can out 6 years ago but not much has changed yeah?
Though on the flip side, I’m curious avoid the capitalism angle of Telegram. Has anyone followed the money?
The Ukrainians have, of course. 😁
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2023/10/1/7422200/
I guess it depends on the context of when you started using it. In my case, I think crypto is dumb, and in fact didn't know it was associated with that. Sure, I do get the random spam groups about crypto schemes, but that was *after* I signed up on Telegram, and not a primary feature that drew me to the platform as you suggest.
Honestly, I just didn't like that Facebook bought WhatsApp and back in the day (10-ish years ago) I was trying hard to get away from the FB and Google tentacles as much as possible. Fast forward to now, where I don't really care / defeated about losing the privacy war lol
Just came here to say that Telegram is just where I have my various family group texts and some friend groups, even a group chat that is exclusively for posting cute photos of your pets.
I'm sure it's a cesspool, won't debate that notion. However in my limited experience with WhatsApp, it is also full of scammers and I'm pretty sure I've seen a giant crypto group or two. Perhaps they get squashed faster than they do on Telegram though, and that's probably the big point here.
Content moderation is not a purity test, but a half-life measurement: when (not if) something bad lands on a platform, what is its average half-life on that platform?