Picked up Cyclonopedia on this recommendation and gotta say... this thing is nearly impassably dense and multi-faceted. I think I'm MOSTLY enjoying it so far, but it's narrative spine is a little overcomplicated for the AST framework, and instead is used mostly to justify philosophical theory on the supposed sentience of the Middle East and the demonic presence of the Under Sun - oil.
Probably easier reading for anyone with a background in post-modern philosophy, but it's slow going if you're like me and are mostly an idiot.
if you can make it through the prologue and the first 60 pages I think it's either getting more easily parsable or I'm just getting inculcated to it's insane deluge of Proper Nouns and Terms that I've never heard of and can't tell if they're real or fake.
Another wild thing are the multi-faceted notations - fictional notations from one of the characters that are marked page by page 'Infinite Jest'-style, and then seemingly purely nonfictional, philosophically dense but ultimately removed from the narrative spine explications of RN's theory in the back.
I've started approaching it as a sort of Codex Seraphinianus - completely unparseable but I'm pretty sure it's a masterwork.
With that in mind, do you have any recs? Was thinking of sci-fi movies that are either *about* the working class, work itself, or feature main characters who work dirty, manually labor jobs (as opposed to scientists, pols, nerds, etc). Thanks!
I have to put in a vote for Termination Shock by Neal Stephenson for a classic AST. The entire conceit is what happens (will happen) when failure to prevent climate change results in large scale geo-engineering. NS often has that systems view in general, as seen in Cryptonomicon where the system in question is the monetary system
If you can get over the datedness and West-Wing-style fictional place names, /Stand on Zanzibar/ is incredible. It's a tight bundle of late-1960s anxieties about crowding, information overload, overpopulation, and computerization. Brunner uses some of Dos Passos's literary techniques from the U.S.A. Trilogy, which helps to sell the the sense of social vertigo.
This is to say, I cosign the recommendation. It's a must-read, if only as primary source from which to view that generation's social and environmental nightmares. I regard Brunner as kind of a genius.
also late to the party but Metro 2033 by Dmitry Glukhovsky has gotta prob make the list. Dregs of humanity scraping out a life in the subway tunnels of the former glorious metro stations of Moscow. There's a map included, an explainer on their mushroom tea, all the various factions of humanity, black market trading sites... etc etc. A reluctant hero fails his way through the book til the end and there's, OF COURSE, a plot twist. It's all a bit on the nose, but fun and you can see how it ended up a popular video game. Come for the dark moody post apocalyptic monster action, stay for the directions on which subway lines you will navigate to get to a given destination.
Missed this discussion the first time around! But I'm thinking Jeff Vandermeer books could be great apocalyptic systems novels. They usually involve individuals trying to navigate very shadowy, very large governmental or underworld type organizations, all while attempting to unravel a mystery or disappearance. His books also most certainly involve the apocalypse or apocalyptic type scenarios... in The Southern Reach Trilogy, Borne, and Veniss Underground, something completely transformative has happened to the world (or the transformation is underway) in all of those books.
I'm also waiting for someone to write the great systems novel uniting politics, the global drug trade, and soccer hooliganism. Could it be you, Max? Related reading:
Picked up Cyclonopedia on this recommendation and gotta say... this thing is nearly impassably dense and multi-faceted. I think I'm MOSTLY enjoying it so far, but it's narrative spine is a little overcomplicated for the AST framework, and instead is used mostly to justify philosophical theory on the supposed sentience of the Middle East and the demonic presence of the Under Sun - oil.
Probably easier reading for anyone with a background in post-modern philosophy, but it's slow going if you're like me and are mostly an idiot.
Yeah speaking as an idiot I've always felt a bit intimidated by starting it even though I love the *idea* of it
if you can make it through the prologue and the first 60 pages I think it's either getting more easily parsable or I'm just getting inculcated to it's insane deluge of Proper Nouns and Terms that I've never heard of and can't tell if they're real or fake.
Another wild thing are the multi-faceted notations - fictional notations from one of the characters that are marked page by page 'Infinite Jest'-style, and then seemingly purely nonfictional, philosophically dense but ultimately removed from the narrative spine explications of RN's theory in the back.
I've started approaching it as a sort of Codex Seraphinianus - completely unparseable but I'm pretty sure it's a masterwork.
Love these reading recs. Been messing around with a "Blue Collar Sci-Fi" list on Letterboxd that feels very incomplete: https://letterboxd.com/mformoerder/list/blue-collar-sci-fi/
With that in mind, do you have any recs? Was thinking of sci-fi movies that are either *about* the working class, work itself, or feature main characters who work dirty, manually labor jobs (as opposed to scientists, pols, nerds, etc). Thanks!
I have to put in a vote for Termination Shock by Neal Stephenson for a classic AST. The entire conceit is what happens (will happen) when failure to prevent climate change results in large scale geo-engineering. NS often has that systems view in general, as seen in Cryptonomicon where the system in question is the monetary system
If you can get over the datedness and West-Wing-style fictional place names, /Stand on Zanzibar/ is incredible. It's a tight bundle of late-1960s anxieties about crowding, information overload, overpopulation, and computerization. Brunner uses some of Dos Passos's literary techniques from the U.S.A. Trilogy, which helps to sell the the sense of social vertigo.
This is to say, I cosign the recommendation. It's a must-read, if only as primary source from which to view that generation's social and environmental nightmares. I regard Brunner as kind of a genius.
also late to the party but Metro 2033 by Dmitry Glukhovsky has gotta prob make the list. Dregs of humanity scraping out a life in the subway tunnels of the former glorious metro stations of Moscow. There's a map included, an explainer on their mushroom tea, all the various factions of humanity, black market trading sites... etc etc. A reluctant hero fails his way through the book til the end and there's, OF COURSE, a plot twist. It's all a bit on the nose, but fun and you can see how it ended up a popular video game. Come for the dark moody post apocalyptic monster action, stay for the directions on which subway lines you will navigate to get to a given destination.
Missed this discussion the first time around! But I'm thinking Jeff Vandermeer books could be great apocalyptic systems novels. They usually involve individuals trying to navigate very shadowy, very large governmental or underworld type organizations, all while attempting to unravel a mystery or disappearance. His books also most certainly involve the apocalypse or apocalyptic type scenarios... in The Southern Reach Trilogy, Borne, and Veniss Underground, something completely transformative has happened to the world (or the transformation is underway) in all of those books.
I'm also waiting for someone to write the great systems novel uniting politics, the global drug trade, and soccer hooliganism. Could it be you, Max? Related reading:
https://newrepublic.com/article/159252/noor-one-vampire-ship-heroin-turkey-greece-corruption-scandal
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/03/magazine/aleksandar-vucic-veljko-belivuk-serbia.html