Thanks for your answers! Now to meddle in answers to a different question, I will say that as much as I love Ted Chiang, I'm not sure his magic/technology distinction makes that much sense to me.
For instance Ged, the wizard of Earthsea, is kind of just the Michael Jordan of being a wizard, but magic in Earthsea is still very much something you practice and learn, he just happens to be a peak performer.
On the other side of the spectrum, regarding personal vs impersonal universes, I think the universe of the Matrix cares a whole lot about Neo, but it is still sci-fi.
Ultimately I think it comes down to mystery vs clarity, which is why BotNS feels like fantasy despite all it's science fiction trappings.
Yeah, part of why I like Chiang's definition is that it makes you consider questions like "is <em>The Matrix</em> fantasy?" (it has this sort of occult gnosticism at its core) or "are the Earthsea books sci-fi?" (LeGuin wrote more clear sci-fi than she ever did fantasy). Even when it breaks down or doesn't work it can make you consider books and movies a little differently.
Piranesi could be a science fiction novel in which the protagonist believes his situation to be that of a fantasy novel. Believing an impersonal universe to be utterly, achingly personal creates its own magic. I guess anthropologists would call this enchantment? (One of my favorite books of the past few years!)
Anyone who understood the Spurs answer and was interested in the David Peace answer has to read The Damned Utd and Red or Dead. The former is probably the better book but the latter is unmatchable when it comes to drowning yourself in intense, hypnotic prose.
Both the AI issue as it pertains to writing, and the Musk et al. "Torment Nexus" thing both seem to stem from the same place, which is, for lack of a better way to articulate it: none of our these people seem to know what an idea is?
Flattered that you answered my question (Peace/Ellroy/Arnott/etc). I have not heard of the São Paulo series so I immediately ordered the first (the initial one gets a reissue on Tuesday). The Factory Series is excellent, the first is as close to a perfect crime novel as I’ve ever read. Brief History took me several tries as I had to get the hang of the Jamaican patois but once I did, I loved it. As for Winslow: I read Power of the Dog in one sitting years ago while in between semesters in grad school. That and The Wire were changing my views on the Drug War. So I was skeptical when he came out with sequels and didn’t get to them until last year. Cartel was excellent. The Border…look, whatever liberal boomer stuff Winslow wants to post on Twitter is his business, I guess. I just can’t buy that his best, most morally ambiguous creation, a man who lived through that world’s Iran Contra and Sinaloa Cartel wars, would suddenly become a Resistance Goober. Like, c’mon man. THIS GUY would be shocked Donald Trump got elected? Ugh. Usually like Winslow except for his endings. The Force and Frankie Machine were both great and I wish Scorsese adapted the latter instead of I Heard You Paint Houses.
Haha I'm glad I had at least ONE suggestion that you hadn't read before -- please let me know how you like the Sao Paolo books, since I've been meaning to get around to them. Fully agree with you on Winslow; "Dawn Patrol" is great too, though in a different mode.
Don Winslow making Art Keller a resistance goober reminds me of David Chase saying Tony Soprano would have seen through Trump's bullshit as president. I feel like Trump as a political entity very clearly appeals to Tony Soprano's core anxiety of feeling like he was born just too late to take part in some idealized golden era despite having it very good by any objective measure. The only reason I can think of that David Chase wouldn't be able to see that is I guess because that would require him to acknowledge that many of his own generational boomer anxieties that he put into Tony Soprano are in fact a key part of the Trump appeal?
Agreed. Not sure if Tony would’ve gone full on MAGA but he definitely would’ve championed some of Trump’s bigotries. I mean, this is the same dude that recited a litany of slurs the first time he met his daughter’s Black-Jewish boyfriend. And no doubt, he would’ve been one of those “I didn’t vote for the guy but that Hillary...” types.
It would be a semi-fun, mostly-depressing parlor game to consider which Sopranos would’ve fully embraced Trump. I don’t have the answers but I’m convinced Chris would’ve been a QAnon apostle.
Lol yeah I can absolutely see Chris hunched over his laptop reading QAnon drops...
Tony is: a blatant racist who doesn't think he's racist, doesn't understand his children, rich but not a white-collar elite, a suburban small-business owner who resents his employees for being lazy and not sufficiently respecting how difficult he has it as the boss, a boat guy, hates the FBI... I don't think he would necessarily like Trump personally or do business with him, but that is 100% the prototypical Trump supporter.
I'd go with the "Star Wars" universe being fantasy, or more pedantically "space opera", rather than science fiction.
Neil deGrasse Tyson made a funny but deeply interesting observation: How come that all of the planets and worlds inhabited in the Star Wars universe happen to have the identical atmospheric air and gravity as Earth?
My parents had copiously stocked bookshelves, which i clambered all over from a v young age, including plenty of communist literature (courtesy my dad), war reportage, Erica Jong, plenty of crime, but the only books they ever kept away from me were the Derek Raymond novels. Obv they *are* brutal but when i did get to them it was more the criminal vernacular in taut prose that was striking.
On the question of further political combat in Portland in 2024 - I would take the no side of that wager thanks to a combination of Jan 6/other arrests of the most prolific rightwing provocateurs and an implosion of the leftist antifa crowd. Not to say it can’t happen, if one side mobilizes it will spur a counter mobilization but there hasn’t really been a real brawling protest, even against the cops, in years.
Thanks for your answers! Now to meddle in answers to a different question, I will say that as much as I love Ted Chiang, I'm not sure his magic/technology distinction makes that much sense to me.
For instance Ged, the wizard of Earthsea, is kind of just the Michael Jordan of being a wizard, but magic in Earthsea is still very much something you practice and learn, he just happens to be a peak performer.
On the other side of the spectrum, regarding personal vs impersonal universes, I think the universe of the Matrix cares a whole lot about Neo, but it is still sci-fi.
Ultimately I think it comes down to mystery vs clarity, which is why BotNS feels like fantasy despite all it's science fiction trappings.
Yeah, part of why I like Chiang's definition is that it makes you consider questions like "is <em>The Matrix</em> fantasy?" (it has this sort of occult gnosticism at its core) or "are the Earthsea books sci-fi?" (LeGuin wrote more clear sci-fi than she ever did fantasy). Even when it breaks down or doesn't work it can make you consider books and movies a little differently.
Piranesi could be a science fiction novel in which the protagonist believes his situation to be that of a fantasy novel. Believing an impersonal universe to be utterly, achingly personal creates its own magic. I guess anthropologists would call this enchantment? (One of my favorite books of the past few years!)
Anyone who understood the Spurs answer and was interested in the David Peace answer has to read The Damned Utd and Red or Dead. The former is probably the better book but the latter is unmatchable when it comes to drowning yourself in intense, hypnotic prose.
Both the AI issue as it pertains to writing, and the Musk et al. "Torment Nexus" thing both seem to stem from the same place, which is, for lack of a better way to articulate it: none of our these people seem to know what an idea is?
Flattered that you answered my question (Peace/Ellroy/Arnott/etc). I have not heard of the São Paulo series so I immediately ordered the first (the initial one gets a reissue on Tuesday). The Factory Series is excellent, the first is as close to a perfect crime novel as I’ve ever read. Brief History took me several tries as I had to get the hang of the Jamaican patois but once I did, I loved it. As for Winslow: I read Power of the Dog in one sitting years ago while in between semesters in grad school. That and The Wire were changing my views on the Drug War. So I was skeptical when he came out with sequels and didn’t get to them until last year. Cartel was excellent. The Border…look, whatever liberal boomer stuff Winslow wants to post on Twitter is his business, I guess. I just can’t buy that his best, most morally ambiguous creation, a man who lived through that world’s Iran Contra and Sinaloa Cartel wars, would suddenly become a Resistance Goober. Like, c’mon man. THIS GUY would be shocked Donald Trump got elected? Ugh. Usually like Winslow except for his endings. The Force and Frankie Machine were both great and I wish Scorsese adapted the latter instead of I Heard You Paint Houses.
Haha I'm glad I had at least ONE suggestion that you hadn't read before -- please let me know how you like the Sao Paolo books, since I've been meaning to get around to them. Fully agree with you on Winslow; "Dawn Patrol" is great too, though in a different mode.
Don Winslow making Art Keller a resistance goober reminds me of David Chase saying Tony Soprano would have seen through Trump's bullshit as president. I feel like Trump as a political entity very clearly appeals to Tony Soprano's core anxiety of feeling like he was born just too late to take part in some idealized golden era despite having it very good by any objective measure. The only reason I can think of that David Chase wouldn't be able to see that is I guess because that would require him to acknowledge that many of his own generational boomer anxieties that he put into Tony Soprano are in fact a key part of the Trump appeal?
Agreed. Not sure if Tony would’ve gone full on MAGA but he definitely would’ve championed some of Trump’s bigotries. I mean, this is the same dude that recited a litany of slurs the first time he met his daughter’s Black-Jewish boyfriend. And no doubt, he would’ve been one of those “I didn’t vote for the guy but that Hillary...” types.
It would be a semi-fun, mostly-depressing parlor game to consider which Sopranos would’ve fully embraced Trump. I don’t have the answers but I’m convinced Chris would’ve been a QAnon apostle.
Lol yeah I can absolutely see Chris hunched over his laptop reading QAnon drops...
Tony is: a blatant racist who doesn't think he's racist, doesn't understand his children, rich but not a white-collar elite, a suburban small-business owner who resents his employees for being lazy and not sufficiently respecting how difficult he has it as the boss, a boat guy, hates the FBI... I don't think he would necessarily like Trump personally or do business with him, but that is 100% the prototypical Trump supporter.
I'd go with the "Star Wars" universe being fantasy, or more pedantically "space opera", rather than science fiction.
Neil deGrasse Tyson made a funny but deeply interesting observation: How come that all of the planets and worlds inhabited in the Star Wars universe happen to have the identical atmospheric air and gravity as Earth?
Combining two bits of the newsletter in one:
My parents had copiously stocked bookshelves, which i clambered all over from a v young age, including plenty of communist literature (courtesy my dad), war reportage, Erica Jong, plenty of crime, but the only books they ever kept away from me were the Derek Raymond novels. Obv they *are* brutal but when i did get to them it was more the criminal vernacular in taut prose that was striking.
On the question of further political combat in Portland in 2024 - I would take the no side of that wager thanks to a combination of Jan 6/other arrests of the most prolific rightwing provocateurs and an implosion of the leftist antifa crowd. Not to say it can’t happen, if one side mobilizes it will spur a counter mobilization but there hasn’t really been a real brawling protest, even against the cops, in years.