I took a class in college on critical reasoning that introduced me to the effective altruism community and Rationalists. I thought it was brilliant (it’s all about choice! Critical thought! Being logical and aware of your biases! Pro-human despite a holier-than-thou stance against sheeple!). I thought I was going to dedicate my career to AI ethics. COVID happened and I dropped all interest as my values radically shifted, but it’s bizarre to reflect on now. Between Zizians and Luigi Mangione, I had no idea what I was so close to.
I don't think the EA community is even nearly as cultogenic as core-Rationalism, though if you are coming at it from a rationalist-AI safety perspective, I can see having the association.
Agreed, it’s definitely not. But it’s worth noting that EA is adjacent to, and informed by, some of the same writing as Zizians and other extreme rationalists. It’s a part of the philosophy that underpins the whole tech world, not just in regards to AI ethics (e.g. Sam Bankman-Fried)
That's true. Although, (minor nitpick) I wouldn't say it underpins the "whole" tech world. The tech world is pretty big, there's lots of other elements mixed in.
Don’t paint the entire “tech world” with the EA / Rationalist brush. Been in “the tech world” since 1990 and I can’t say I have met a single such wacko in person, just online 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
EA and rationalism aren’t inherently wacko either. Rationalism as an epistemological view just means basing opinions and actions off of logic and reason rather than faith, tradition, or sensory experience. I do feel that’s a pretty essential pillar of the tech industry. It’s still worth thinking about how and where that sentiment manifests, or what that can turn into.
“Whole” was an overreach, I could have worded that better.
Thanks for asking! I think rationalism eventually felt too removed from reality, and I don’t agree with consequentialism. I didn’t want to live in a framework where I had to turn things into calculations to know what was right or morally obligatory. The isolation of COVID exacerbated that I guess, as well as graduating college and getting thrown into “real life.” I felt such a deep emptiness in the absence of faith/tradition/experience, which are completely deprioritized in Rationalism. It all felt hollow. AI ethics also felt completely futile.
I moved onto a farm during COVID and learned to grow food for my community. It was the best decision I ever made :)
That sounds practical, wholesome and something that Rationalism would not have been able to provide. Thank you for sharing! I haven't ever been into Rationalism but what you described has been my experience with 99.99% of the things I pick up from the Internet: after some time they felt hollow, and I craved the stark reality and groundedness of real life
The Internet, for all its wonderments, can never be real life, and the cultures bred here are usually untested against reality and so collapse when they come in contact with it
Seeing as the internet was born into a dominant culture - our Western media - I guess maybe it was inevitable that the kind of online culture we've now got would eventually dominate. Have you ever read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves To Death (it's brilliant)?
I took a class in college on critical reasoning that introduced me to the effective altruism community and Rationalists. I thought it was brilliant (it’s all about choice! Critical thought! Being logical and aware of your biases! Pro-human despite a holier-than-thou stance against sheeple!). I thought I was going to dedicate my career to AI ethics. COVID happened and I dropped all interest as my values radically shifted, but it’s bizarre to reflect on now. Between Zizians and Luigi Mangione, I had no idea what I was so close to.
I don't think the EA community is even nearly as cultogenic as core-Rationalism, though if you are coming at it from a rationalist-AI safety perspective, I can see having the association.
Agreed, it’s definitely not. But it’s worth noting that EA is adjacent to, and informed by, some of the same writing as Zizians and other extreme rationalists. It’s a part of the philosophy that underpins the whole tech world, not just in regards to AI ethics (e.g. Sam Bankman-Fried)
That's true. Although, (minor nitpick) I wouldn't say it underpins the "whole" tech world. The tech world is pretty big, there's lots of other elements mixed in.
Don’t paint the entire “tech world” with the EA / Rationalist brush. Been in “the tech world” since 1990 and I can’t say I have met a single such wacko in person, just online 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
EA and rationalism aren’t inherently wacko either. Rationalism as an epistemological view just means basing opinions and actions off of logic and reason rather than faith, tradition, or sensory experience. I do feel that’s a pretty essential pillar of the tech industry. It’s still worth thinking about how and where that sentiment manifests, or what that can turn into.
“Whole” was an overreach, I could have worded that better.
Interested to know if you're open to sharing: what was the shift in values that affected your interest so drastically?
Thanks for asking! I think rationalism eventually felt too removed from reality, and I don’t agree with consequentialism. I didn’t want to live in a framework where I had to turn things into calculations to know what was right or morally obligatory. The isolation of COVID exacerbated that I guess, as well as graduating college and getting thrown into “real life.” I felt such a deep emptiness in the absence of faith/tradition/experience, which are completely deprioritized in Rationalism. It all felt hollow. AI ethics also felt completely futile.
I moved onto a farm during COVID and learned to grow food for my community. It was the best decision I ever made :)
That sounds practical, wholesome and something that Rationalism would not have been able to provide. Thank you for sharing! I haven't ever been into Rationalism but what you described has been my experience with 99.99% of the things I pick up from the Internet: after some time they felt hollow, and I craved the stark reality and groundedness of real life
Ugh, so true. Makes me wonder if that’s an inherent property of the internet or whether it is made that way by the kind of culture that is bred online
Both, I think
The Internet, for all its wonderments, can never be real life, and the cultures bred here are usually untested against reality and so collapse when they come in contact with it
Seeing as the internet was born into a dominant culture - our Western media - I guess maybe it was inevitable that the kind of online culture we've now got would eventually dominate. Have you ever read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves To Death (it's brilliant)?
No! But you’re not the first to recommend, maybe it’s time for me to grab a copy